Barrett1, Why is it not extinct? DaveScott – I like your comment about accepting reality as you find it. I’m getting a little tired of correcting you. The only fact is we may never know. I sometimes wonder what it’s like to be so smart and full of so much wisdom. Predators and prey are essential to an ecology.”. What a treat it would be to time travel to a few million years ago, and witness a world in which protobirds are hopping comically with half developed wings, yet often evading their predators who themselves have not yet gotten big enough or fast enough, or whose noses barely work, so that they are equally ineffective chasers of birds as the birds are ineffective fliers. I think you guys do a great job. There is no purpose, no meaning, no telic goal. DJGibbon –The single most basic premise of the theory of natural selection, Scott, Not to me anyway. I have talked to many a scientist who understands the reasoning and science behind ID. I would argue that there is no ultimate “model” for living organisms. The answer you’re looking for is there. Who the hell knows? I don’t know if we can know the designer, but we can know God. . Supposedly that covered a multitude of things. Why is it people accuse theists of not being sensible (while many of us became theists from logical conclusions drawn based on analysis of available data) when atheist continue to use these visceral emotional “arguments” which do not speak to the veracity of ID or Theism at all? A much more interesting discussion would have to involve beings much more like ourselves, such as the higher mammals. Step 1: She stings the cockroach in the underside. If the resource preexists an organism can grow to depend on it. Barrett1: “But like Darwinists, intelligent design proponents want me to ignore my intuition that the wasp is a product of evolutionary processes. Lots of things in nature travel in opposing pairs. This process can vary from gentle integration to complete turmoil. The emerald cockroach wasp (Ampulex compressa, also known as the jewel wasp) is a parasitoid wasp of the family Ampulicidae. Why? If you believe all this sort of natural “wonder” just sort of happens in by concurrent, coherent mutations + ns then I have a very beautiful golden bridge to sell you real cheap! Or are you just guessing? It’s “easy” for evolution we are told! The design in the wasp is obvious(not just apparent). I can understand the intelligent design argument that the universe is bathed in a conscious God that was an continues to be involved in the universe. But unless someone... –, David Hilbert gave it for his opinion that “the infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. If death is just a transition, why then is it considered by many Christians (and I do consider myself one) bad? Presumably they all ramp up together, imperceptably slowly. There is a difference between Creation Science(biblically based 6000yr, fall) and ID(which is design detection). It is in the first book, Genesis, and is an important theme in the New Testament. But that should not stop us from looking. Date: June 09, 2007. As a result prey numbers may return. Imagine, if you will, how a wasp was intelligently designed with the ability to perform brain surgery complete with a drug that turns a cockroach into a docile zombie it can lead around like a dog on a leash. It answers your question about a “switch” being thrown after the Fall. But like Darwinists, intelligent design proponents want me to ignore my intuition that the wasp is a product of evolutionary processes. Certainly predator and prey do this but I obviously have no evidence that the wasp and cockroach contribute to anything, just speculation. “…say an inquisitive child who asks about the point or intention of designing this “nasty” insect. Yet, the intuition of design is still strong. Over a period of eight days, the wasp larva consumes the cockroach’s internal organs in an order which guarantees that the cockroach will stay alive, at least until the larva enters the pupal stage and forms a cocoon inside the cockroach’s body. We’re honestly meant to mention the fall? Genetic Code, is a functional Rules Based System that scientist are decoding and decompressing. She then stings it—twice. If logic, intuition, and lack of credible alternative tell us a designer is required then why just one designer? There is nothing in ID that points to Christianity, only some being with immense intelligence. The female wasp, which is often just a fraction of the size of her victim, begins her attack from above, swooping down and grabbing the roach by its neck. Once they reach the burrow, the wasp lays a white egg, about 2 mm long, on the roach's abdomen and proceeds to fill in the burrow entrance with pebbles, more to keep other predators out than to keep the roach in. It does at times trump other assumptions, and therefore it is a necessary discipline. The wasp then leads its … It would seem from the article above that the seemingly complex behaviors of grooming and suggestibility may be all related to a relatively simple chemical response. Alchemists persisted in trying to create gold for a long time, with approximately the same success that NDE proponents have shown in demonstrating random-mutation-based creation of novel organisms, structures and biochemistry. Several other species of the genus Ampulex show a similar behavior of preying on cockroaches. “The wasp didn’t have to designed with that ability. The designer thinks that “if this state of war in the universe [is] a price worth paying for free will…then we may take it it is worth paying.” CS Lewis The stung cockroach, its escape reflex disabled, will simply rest in the den as the wasp’s egg hatches. Designed Jacob: I take the ID goal to be that a teacher would allow the students to freely discuss among themselves the possible answeres, from materialistic answers to theological ones, and any in between. And I have trouble with a bizarre God. Someone or something designed me, you, the wasp, the cockroach, and the world we all live in. A number of venomous animals paralyze prey as live food for their larvae, but unlike them, Ampulex compressa initially leaves the roach mobile, but modifies its behaviour in a unique way. Fross: that which would be inflicted by a predator) simply triggers a pre-programmed flight response, without any sensation of pain comparable to what a mammal feels. How it is they think they can pass such subjectivity off as “science” is beyond me. I suspect the real reason some folks don’t want to offer “the fall” as a possible explanation is that deep down they’re afraid it might actually be true. The wasp then continued to methodically chew off each of the spiders 8 legs (which amazingly occurred in less than 2 minutes). From what we know, to hone in such a manner is not a simple manner of a base change! The problem is from a Biblical POF, Darwin failed to remember Genesis, prior to sin no animal was slain, sin and the fall of the first Adam led to the first animals slain for mankind. They were anaesthetized with CO 2 and decapitated. Because it has happened so many times before. The wasp then carried the legless carcass away. So, take the example posted above by DaveScot. It might be a story that you just made up in 15 min. If Bill had a method for reliably detecting Designers I’d think he’d be running around in the streets announcing it…especially if it pointed to his favored Designer. Fross should say:  “ what? ” discover this behavior features or symbiotic relationships can occur, the. 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